The Impacts and Implications of Recent Banking Failures

00:00Good morning everyone, and thank you for joining us for today's webinar.

00:05I'm your host, Marc merits.

00:07I'm a director in nasdaq index research and development group.

00:13I'm joined today by a very special guest, Matt Kelly,

00:18who's head of US equities and Director of Research at Katie w. As well as Rene Reina,

00:24who's head of thematic product strategy for Tesco ETS.

00:30Before we get started on today's webinar,

00:34I want to give you a bit of background about Kw,

00:38the relationship with nasdaq that dates back to,

00:42I believe as early as 2004 in terms of the life history that we

00:47have for our k VW Nasdaq family of indexes.

00:51K VW itself was founded back in 1962 with a focus on regional bank research.

00:58Now It's a subsidiary of stifle and has grown to more than 400 professionals,

01:02widely recognized as an industry leader in equity research for financial services.

01:08Specifically, both in terms of the breadth of

01:11their coverage and the quality of the research.

01:14Award winning research division publishes in-depth

01:17analyses of financial sector companies in global markets.

01:21The worldwide team of 80 analysts and staff that provides

01:25coverage of more than 600 companies across multiple different subsectors.

01:30Their analysts or top ranked by institutional investor in Greenwich Associates,

01:35regularly quoted in leading publications like The Wall Street Journal,

01:40Bloomberg Markets, and Forbes.

01:42And then beyond research,

01:44kw also maintains leading positions in financial services industry,

01:49MNA, and capital markets.

01:51So when you think about bringing in That's sort of an ideal partner and

01:57nasdaq partners with a lot of industry

02:00or thematic experts for all of our different indexes.

02:04K VW is really an ideal partner to have or the financial services industry.

02:11And it's really today given what's going on in the market,

02:17I think it's a really special opportunity to have someone like Matt

02:21on to talk about how recent developments,

02:26not just in the regional bank sector here in the US,

02:30but also globally with the lights of the crisis that recently played out with

02:36Credit Suisse that has impacted the indexes that track those areas here in the US.

02:43And also the related ETS will be mostly talking about two of the indexes here.

02:51Even though there's nine of them in the family in total,

02:54there's five tracking ETF's.

02:56The two that are really at issue.

02:58Here are the BK x,

03:00which is the k VW nasdaq bank index,

03:03and then k RX, which is the regional bank index version of that.

03:08And I want to just note for folks also that the thing

03:11that makes these indexes special is that there's no overlap between them.

03:15And they really provide, we think,

03:18the purest way to play,

03:20those two different ways of breaking down the banking sector in the US.

03:26When you look at competing indexes from the likes of SNP,

03:29there's a lot of non banks.

03:32In their quote, unquote bank indexes,

03:35they don't provide the same purity of exposure.

03:37And they also overlap with each other in terms of the bank and regional bank version.

03:42So not all indexes are created the same.

03:46It's important for you to know why these standout.

03:49The value of having such a trusted partner in terms of doing

03:53the heavy lifting of screening the universe and selecting companies

03:57to include in these areas to track the index

04:01is four for both US banks and regional banks specifically.

04:06So that's enough for me.

04:08I want to get it kicked off now with Nat with

04:12some of the questions that we've got for today.

04:17And let me start off by asking you,

04:20just at a very high level,

04:22there's been a lot of debate,

04:25I think in the media,

04:26even from some regulators in the US about what exactly lead to the recent bank failures,

04:33failures in the US with Silicon Valley Bank and signature bank, um,

04:38talk to us a little bit high level what you and

04:41your team think really kind of led us to this moment.

04:46Well first, thanks Mark for having me.

04:50Maybe WE really values the partnership with nasdaq and investigators.

04:54So thank you for having me and for hosting the webinar.

04:57To your question about what are the factors that

05:00led to the recent turmoil in the financial markets.

05:03Kb W, I would just say you mentioned it briefly,

05:06but we really have a unique view given

05:09our coverage of over 600 financial stocks globally.

05:12And we cover, within that we cover over 200 banks in the US.

05:15So I would say we really have a unique boots on the ground view of this topic.

05:19And really, when you look over the last few weeks,

05:23we've had three bank failures in the US.

05:25Not to mention what's happened in Europe, but silver gate,

05:28Silicone Valley Bank and signature bank where the three in the US.

05:32So how did we get here?

05:35The banking industry really grew deposits significantly over a three-year period,

05:41really 2019 through 2022.

05:44These three banks I mentioned,

05:45grew deposits even faster than the industry overall,

05:48so they were taking share.

05:50Their growth came particularly in the areas of

05:52venture capital technology and in some cases, cryptocurrency.

05:57With the unprecedented, unprecedented, excuse me,

06:01rate hikes we saw over the past 12 to 15 months.

06:05Those bags, along with others,

06:07that cost of deposits rose significantly and they also experienced significant deposit,

06:12deposit outflows as investors put their money and other vehicles.

06:15So on the other side of their balance sheet,

06:18on the asset side,

06:19they had significant investments in long dated government securities,

06:23which effectively created a negative Harry trade, if you will,

06:26where the fixed rate of their securities on

06:29the asset side continued to be at a relatively low rate,

06:33while the deposit side,

06:34the cost of funds increased.

06:37So this all really came to a head when Silicon Valley bankers,

06:40as we refer to as B,

06:42salt deposit outflow is accelerate and they had to sell

06:45some securities at a loss and raise capital,

06:48but they were unable to do so.

06:49So at that point,

06:51deposit outflow is accelerated.

06:52The stock went down and they essentially experienced a run on their bank.

06:57So when you look at Silicon Valley Bank B and signature,

07:01they had mostly uninsured deposits,

07:04which further contributed to the run on the banks.

07:06Since there was also a two plus to a period where it was unclear in

07:10the industry if uninsured depositors would be made whole until over the weekend,

07:15the government assured everyone for

07:18those two banks that uninsured deposits would be made whole.

07:24Got it.

07:25Got it.

07:26Thank you. I mean,

07:27that's certainly I would say a unique confluence of factors that

07:33probably is tough to model out for a lot of folks in advance,

07:39whether you're talking about the banks

07:41themselves or even some of the regulators out there.

07:44You know, I'm thinking about the stress tests that

07:47the Fed and others developed post 2008 that

07:52really sort of focused on testing for

07:56what happens to bank balance sheets in the case of a really severe recession,

08:00really severe equity market pull back and a lot of asset impairment.

08:05We didn't really see that this time around that much, did we?

08:09It's not so much that these were bad assets.

08:12It's that there were mismatches and duration and there was a liquidity crisis.

08:17And so my next question for you, I think,

08:20would get into what are some of

08:23the potential implications of what we've seen over the past couple of weeks.

08:27Both in terms of further changes in

08:31the regulatory landscape and also

08:34structurally with some of these banks in the regional space,

08:38how are their balance sheet is going to be changing going forward in terms of

08:43either lending or managing their deposits more effectively.

08:49What can you tell us about that?

08:50Yeah, So Mark, I'd start with first just talking

08:55broadly and then we'll drill down into the regulatory imbalance sheet aspects of it.

08:59But when you think about what's happened, really,

09:03we saw somewhat unprecedented changes and actions taken by the government.

09:10And obviously, things are still heavily in flux in terms of deposit guaranteed doubts.

09:16Outside of the two banks we talked about

09:18the combined deal between UBS and Credit Suisse in Europe.

09:23You had an explicit deposit guarantee for

09:26uninsured deposits at two banks with the industry wondering if that will

09:29extend more broadly or if the FDIC $250,000 are insured limit will increase.

09:35So there's a lot that we're still talking about.

09:38A lot.

09:39Quite frankly, that's still has to be figured

09:40out as we move forward here because this is all,

09:44this has all happened in the past two weeks.

09:46The near term focus of the market is on liquidity.

09:50Investors or tried to get comfortable with bank balance sheets and their liquidity.

09:54And that includes stickiness of deposits and their capital levels.

09:58So notably, sock investors are looking at

10:03pro forma capital levels of banks After bond mark-to-market,

10:07unrealized losses, given what we were talking about earlier with Silicon Valley,

10:12as well as looking at their deposit mix including commercial versus retail,

10:16insured versus uninsured to see how sticky those deposits really are if there's

10:20a potential another outflow wave, if you will.

10:24Now the second phase for investors has been looking at longer-term implications for

10:29the banks coming out of this volatility regarding liquidity and regulations.

10:33So prior to the liquidity crisis that we experienced recently,

10:37the industry was talking about whether banks were approaching,

10:39are already reaching quite frankly,

10:42peak net interest margins given the interest rate cycle I mentioned earlier. In addition.

10:48Investors typically get concerned about credit losses at banks at

10:52this point in a tightening cycle as they worry

10:54about whether the economy is going to go into a recession.

10:56So that's what we were talking about until pretty recently.

11:01Now investors are building on these headwinds to

11:03also consider the cost of increased regulations,

11:06capital levels, and increased liquidity requirements.

11:10To come up with a view of a realistic return profile for the group,

11:13for the bank group under this new normal, if you will.

11:16So under this view, investors are trying to see if there's

11:19value in certain larger regional banks despite,

11:22despite the recent sell off.

11:23So drilling down a little bit,

11:26you talked, you asked me specifically about regulatory and balance sheets.

11:29So from a regulatory perspective,

11:32we think there is increased regulation on their horizon.

11:35Thus far we've seen to deposit guarantees for these bridge,

11:39bridge bank to bank failures,

11:41new liquidity programs from the Fed,

11:43rescue funding from a consortium of banks and a significant merger in Europe all,

11:48all in less than two weeks.

11:49As I mentioned, we think it's,

11:51it's pretty likely that additional regulations will be placed on banks,

11:54particularly on banks that are smaller than the G sub bank.

11:58So the global, systemically important banks in general,

12:02I'd say we would expect strict,

12:05stricter regulations to be pushed down.

12:07Market cap. Liquidity requirements will probably increase.

12:12Mark-to-market of securities will be built into capital requirements for non G sub banks.

12:18Similar to what's already in place for those G7 global, systemically important banks.

12:22Banks may reduce lending activity.

12:27We're probably gonna have higher FDIC insurance expense.

12:30And the end result of that,

12:32we think banks will be safer but also likely less profitable if those are the components.

12:37And then from a balance sheet perspective,

12:40and then I'll turn it back to you Mark.

12:41But banks are likely to focus intensely on liquidity moving forward.

12:47That's probably going to lower returns but improve their safety.

12:51Super reasonable and universal banks already hold significant liquidity,

12:55but we expect this to go up.

12:57We would also expect the banks and regulators to be vigilant about

13:00balance sheet mismatches in terms of timing horizon,

13:05and move towards shorter duration balance.

13:08The potential for regulators to add accumulated other comprehensive income,

13:13which is known as AOCI as a requirement of non je sieves,

13:17would have a meaningful impact on capital ratios for certain banks,

13:21most notably the super regional banks.

13:23And this would likely lead to slower asset growth and

13:26a potentially significant reduction in buyback activity from those bags.

13:31We made the case of Kw,

13:33our thought leading analysts have written about a enhanced loan to deposit ratio.

13:39Loan to the positive ratio is a very standard

13:41metric for bank investors and industry participants to look,

13:45to evaluate banks through.

13:47What we've made the case for isn't enhanced loan and deposit ratio,

13:52which we think that's important because we feel that the industry needs to show

13:56sufficient liquidity that they could hold securities to maturity in this environment.

14:01So an enhanced loaded deposit ratio could add held-to-maturity securities to loans.

14:06And that would be a modified ratio

14:09that we think would be really applicable in this environment.

14:11So I'll turn it back to you Mark.

14:14Very interesting. Thank you.

14:18Thank you for that insight.

14:19And it's encouraging to know that there are

14:23these other modifications being discussed and coming from the industry.

14:27You know, when your case to make people more comfortable about these types of risks.

14:35Certainly like if we,

14:36if we stay in a higher interest rate environment for longer,

14:40I feel like these these writs are only going to

14:43potentially multiplying and come into sharper focus.

14:48But then again, now people are her thinking that

14:51the Fed is going to pivot much more quickly given,

14:54given that we have this sort of mini prices popping up.

14:58So that's great.

15:01We've covered the implications and what led to the failures.

15:06What about just moving to performance and looking at

15:11how these indexes and some of the banks within the indexes have performed year-to-date.

15:18I mean, when I'm when I'm checking out the Kb EW bank index versus the regionals.

15:26There's not, frankly, as much dispersion as I thought there would be.

15:30The Kw bank, looks like it's down around 17% year-to-date,

15:37the regional down 13% year-to-date SNP still up five.

15:41Nasdaq 100's up 17 going into this year.

15:45Obviously, I don't think many people expected this type of performance dispersion.

15:50I think everyone was geared up for, like you said,

15:54net interest margin to improve for financials and

15:57higher rates to continue sort of tunneling tech and in high-growth.

16:01So give us your and your team's analysis of what their

16:08performance year-to-date has baked in and sort of where do we go from here potentially?

16:15Sure.

16:16I'll actually, I'll take it back a step further

16:20even so what I will tell you is in September of 21,

16:24sorry to go way back on earmark.

16:26But our banks team here at k VW had upgraded the US bank sector

16:33to an attractive you and overweight view with

16:36a preference towards the spread lenders over the largest banks.

16:40Quite frankly, these are the banks that we were analyzing that we thought would

16:46have the most significant benefit in

16:48their net interest margins from a rate hike each cycle.

16:52And so that was a that was a recommendation that we had on for

16:56the majority of last year through middle of December of 2022,

17:01the preference for spread lenders that largely played out over the year.

17:05Now, I will say that,

17:08that performed well relative to the S&P and relative to the larger banks?

17:15It on an absolute basis, it was,

17:18it was relatively flat on a relative basis,

17:20who is a strong performer.

17:22But the point there was,

17:25at this point in a rate cycle going significantly higher,

17:29we didn't expect to be clear that the amount of rate hikes that we

17:32got Kw is ahead of consensus in terms of number of rate hikes,

17:37but we weren't anywhere near what we ultimately got.

17:41But the banks that interests margins were starting to reach a near peak,

17:46at least towards the end of last year.

17:48Investors were constantly asking us about this point in a cycle.

17:51If we see a recession, when,

17:53when do we use consumer credit?

17:55Unemployment still very low and we're not seeing cracks.

17:58When are they coming, where they come in.

18:00So we were starting more recently to talk

18:02about some cracks that we've seen an identified in commercial real estate or

18:07analysts Jade Ramani wrote a lot of reports about this that

18:11have been some of the most read reports we've had it in my tenure at kBT w e.g.

18:16but now, obviously, in terms of the performance,

18:21you mentioned year-to-date, I started to be more recently than that.

18:24March 8th, that's the night when Silicon Valley Bank announced capital raised plans.

18:29Silver gate announced the voluntary wind down.

18:32Since that time through yesterday's close,

18:35the BK x index and the KR X and X have declined about 20% and 12% respectively.

18:42And that compares to the S&P basically flat what actually

18:45the S&P has been up slightly about 30 basis points.

18:48So pretty material underperformance.

18:52The largest banks have actually underperformed the Care Act,

18:57but some of that has been driven by a couple of specific banks.

19:01So, you know, clearly

19:02the Silicone Valley deposit outflow is triggered deposit outflows and other banks,

19:07including signature bank, investors were,

19:10were quick to sell stocks where they thought deposit outflows were the most likely.

19:15So some of the metrics that I mentioned before on,

19:18on insured versus uninsured deposits and capital levels were metrics and investors were

19:24running quickly to see where they might have

19:27exposure and then seeing if there were deposit outflows.

19:29So the industry is really pivoted quickly to

19:34what level of capital and liquidity the banks held and what those will look like.

19:39The capital levels would look like if they were to mark their securities to market.

19:44And the banks were the lowest levels of capital and the highest levels of

19:47uninsured deposits have generally

19:50been the stocks that have experienced most significant sell offs.

19:52But that's a very knee-jerk reaction we would say.

19:57So. I think we're still waiting

20:00through what the regulatory environment is going to look like,

20:04what deposit insurance will be,

20:06whether there's an explicit guarantee for other deposits system-wide,

20:09whether the FDIC limit goes up.

20:11So these, the government and companies,

20:15the consortium I mentioned for the rescue funding earlier,

20:18I've stepped in pretty quickly here to stem

20:22the crisis of competence that we started to experience a couple of weeks ago.

20:26So I think we're starting to get our foot in a little bit here,

20:30but there's still a lot to be determined.

20:33That all makes sense. Thank you, Matt.

20:36Yeah, I feel like with financials in particular,

20:39for investors that's often shoot first, ask questions later.

20:44And you know, I started my career in LA at Citigroup.

20:48So I have very vivid memories synched into

20:52my brain about what it means to be caught in the middle of a crisis.

20:56I'll just say that this this time around, you know,

20:59over the weekend that be sort of resolution was announced.

21:04I was impressed at how quickly regulators in the US sort of

21:09up the ante to really try to put a lid on things before they spiraled.

21:13And I think that's broadly worked.

21:15Like he said, There's a couple institutions where

21:19the mix of deposits and the mix of their asset portfolios are still a concern.

21:26But there was a period when we all thought, oh my goodness,

21:29like Charles Schwab potentially is in danger when you look at the movements day over day.

21:36And that was really seemingly unwarranted.

21:39Again, because investors for this sector,

21:42maybe they have strong memories,

21:44maybe they shoot first and ask questions later.

21:46Those questions are getting answered,

21:48I think in a pretty favorable manner

21:52nowadays and we've seen a lot of those banks recovered nicely.

21:56Renee, I want to move it over to you for

22:01at least a few minutes here as we're getting close to the three-minute mark.

22:06Tell us I mean, you're the expert from invest SCO in terms of the ETS,

22:11tell us a little bit about the flagship ETF here,

22:15the investigator Kw bank ETF.

22:18And also I know you've been hearing a lot

22:22from your clients in terms of inbound inquiries,

22:26has that inflow of questions kind of maybe calmed down a little bit in recent days.

22:33Is it the same concerns coming up again and again,

22:36or people, you know,

22:38sort of looking at this from a lot

22:40of different angles and still trying to find their footing.

22:44No great questions. And let me first say,

22:46you'll mark a mat and Mark appreciate the comments there.

22:50And I think, you know what, when Matt touched on was

22:52really the lion's share of the questions we hear from clients.

22:57I think it was a great overview.

23:00Yeah, I would say in my world,

23:02the thematic area, a lot of times we have investors looking for really targeted exposure.

23:07And so when we think of the two indices we offer,

23:10KB, WB, KB, WR.

23:13These are the industry-leading ETFs and indices that allow you to capture the pure play,

23:21whether it's the large US banks or you,

23:24more regional bank exposure.

23:27And we've seen a lot of,

23:29I think to some of the comments made earlier,

23:31we've seen a lot of conviction you early on into the space.

23:34We've talked about an inch in March,

23:36net interest margin opportunities.

23:38And so when we look at January e.g.

23:40KB, WB, the ETF was up 9% and so we started to see opportunities play out in the space.

23:47Then clearly the marketplace has shifted.

23:51And so I think what we're hearing from a client's maybe just to

23:55kinda speak that a little bit is it's kind of all over the spectrum.

23:59So anecdotally, I think we all have friends and family

24:02asking if our deposits are safe in our bank,

24:06should we move our accounts?

24:09That's one end of the spectrum.

24:10I think when we talk to clients,

24:12we also hear a little bit of the concern around exposure,

24:16which I'll touch on here in a minute.

24:18I think there's also some of those that

24:20were some of our clients were really surprised that they did

24:23not get as many inquiries perhaps as it relates to some of the challenges within banking,

24:30but maybe going back to some of what we're hearing from clients,

24:37I think one is understanding the exposure.

24:39So we look at KB, WB.

24:42The index did own SVB,

24:45it did own signature.

24:47We own First Republic.

24:48And I think the best part about it,

24:52taking these diversified approaches is your exposure is somewhat limited.

24:58So we look back to prior to the failures of SUV and signature,

25:06the allocation in the portfolio is about one-and-a-half percent to 1% for both holding.

25:13The breadth of the universe,

25:17of the constituents in this particular ETF did,

25:21do what it's supposed to and provide some diversification.

25:24So I think that's what a lot of

25:28investors mind is just trying to understand. The exposure.

25:32I think two is just trying to understand where do we go from here? What's our view?

25:38And so let me just spend a minute there and then

25:41you talk about the composition of the ETFs.

25:44And so one, I think it's a lot of points map

25:47made by think about performance specifically.

25:51What we've seen since around March 6 is we started to see you okay.

25:56Dwb start to get some pressure.

25:59And since that period of time,

26:00the fun is down about 24%.

26:03So we've seen a little bit of barbell performance.

26:05We've seen some of your large so universals, if you will.

26:08So that JP Morgan's, as an example,

26:11hold up a lot better in this environment versus some of

26:14your regionals down 30% in some instances.

26:18And so that barbell approach,

26:22I think makes sense one and I think too for investors

26:26trying to get that diversified exposure,

26:33you can really see where having a little balance makes sense and more poorly.

26:37There is a little bit of sort of throw the baby out with the bathwater.

26:40And I think that's one sort

26:42of conversation types of conversations we're having with clients.

26:45It's just understanding that, you know,

26:47when since March 6th being down 24%.

26:51Clearly, there is a lot of fear in the market.

26:55Is it perhaps oversold in some cases?

26:57Yeah, I think.

26:59Anytime you see that type of drop,

27:02it does peak some interests.

27:04And I even go back to say,

27:05we look at the height of the fun back in January of 2020, 213th.

27:11We look from that date, the other funds down 43%.

27:14So I think for longer-term investor,

27:16One thing we talk about quite a bit is just understanding where we're evaluations are.

27:21And understanding of the types of exposure,

27:24whether you want large US banks or regional banks.

27:28So those are some of the types of conversations we're having.

27:34So one, understanding what's actually happened,

27:37what are the regulatory risks?

27:39Again, Matt touched on that quite a bit.

27:42You know, the Fed is going to announce the right decisions here later today.

27:47So we'll get a better sense of what that's going to mean to the market.

27:51But I think all in all,

27:54our view is that you probably want to have some exposure

27:58to some of the larger, more well-capitalized banks.

28:03You get a lot of that with k BWP.

28:06So let me just quickly break down the two ETF's that we offer.

28:11One, the investigator dBW be ETF.

28:16This fund, as I mentioned,

28:18gives you targeted exposure to large leading US banks.

28:24The portfolio is comprised of 25 holdings.

28:28It's a modified market cap weighted approach and it's really

28:32designed to capture the movement of US banking.

28:36And so when I look from a market cap exposures about 95% large, 5% mid.

28:42And so it's a really a great way to get exposure to some of the large banks.

28:46When I say modified market cap,

28:48it's going to have a bias towards the largest banks.

28:53So you're going to see approximately 8% and JP Morgan,

28:57Bank of America, Wells Fargo,

28:58CitiGroup, to try to give you a sense of what that looks like.

29:02And then you're going to have in the tail end,

29:04some exposure to some of these larger regional banks as well.

29:08And so we really think you get a good balance.

29:11You can play some of that regional sell off while still having a little bit of

29:16balance coming from the larger sort of mega cap bank names in the portfolio.

29:23The second offering we have is a regional bank,

29:26ETF KB AWR, that does give you target exposure to more of your larger banks.

29:32So I look at the market cap spectrum.

29:34You're seeing about 70,

29:3630, Smith, 30% large.

29:40The kind of moves 752-05-7030 to kinda give you a sense,

29:45I think to Mark's point earlier,

29:47we've really probably see a little bit more of a sell off in

29:50KV WB since the failures of SVB and signature bank.

29:56And so I think just from a valuation perspective,

29:58That's where those may look somewhat attractive.

30:02And again, if you're a long-term investor where the price of the ETF is today,

30:09that could be potentially attractive.

30:12So I guess that's what I'll say.

30:15Their mark is, again,

30:18for investors that really want to targeted exposure,

30:21these are great ways to get access.

30:24And I think Matt did a great job answering a lot of questions we get from our clients.

30:31Absolutely. Yeah. Thank you for that for that overview, Renee,

30:37I think it's I think that's really the way that

30:41investors should think about these two products that we've been focusing on today,

30:46really is the KB,

30:48WB, that sort of your large cap, right?

30:50You may get a couple big caps in there towards the tail end.

30:55But in terms of your cap weighting,

30:57you're tapping the top five at eight per cent each.

31:00That means you, you've always got around 40% of the index as exposure to the really,

31:05really big names, like being a JPL,

31:08like city in Wales.

31:10Interestingly, with this product,

31:12Goldman and Morgan Stanley or not in it, right?

31:15Because they're not technically in the retail deposit banking industry,

31:21but you will see them obviously in a broader kind of financial industry,

31:26financial sector type of index or ETF.

31:30And then you've got the super regionals names like PNC,

31:33truest that you'll see in many different parts of the country,

31:37rounding out your exposure.

31:39And then when you go to the regional product,

31:41that's when you start to see the sort of more regionalized,

31:46I would say banks,

31:48there's 50 of them in there.

31:49There's a solid, diversified

31:51mix of different banks in different parts of the country there.

31:55So too, I think very complimentary products.

31:58If you're looking to play the US banking industry from

32:02both that large-cap, mid-cap regional perspective.

32:06I hope this webinar was informative for our viewers and our listeners.

32:12I want to say again,

32:13a special thank you to Matt Kelly from K BW for taking time out from,

32:20you know, call it the Super Bowl or the

32:23March Madness for financial equity research analysts.

32:27It's been a very, very busy time for them.

32:29So thank you again, Matt won and we'd love to have you on again.

32:35And Renee, Thanks for coming on and helping organize this.

32:40I hope it was,

32:41you know, again, informative,

32:43valuable, and will look for

32:46other opportunities to come back and do it again. So thank you.